Update - Cambridge Bicycle

November 12 - Notes

I somewhat impulsively decided to bring this project to the folks at Cambridge Bicycle. I really like some of the custom builds that they have done, and I am hopeful that they will understand my perspective. I will be working with Rob, who seems both knowledgeable and easy to work with. I have my first meeting with them tomorrow to discuss, so I here want to outline the general direction I want to start the conversation with them.

  • Current build: Currently, I ride a fixed gear frame, which I love for getting around the city. In the past, I’ve mostly had road frames.
  • Why custom (with CB)?: In general, I really enjoy the process of learning about and understanding what I am getting and why, and making the choices in a way that will work the best for me. I could like do this on my own, but generally hoping that I can learn more from doing it with CB folks who are experts. But I am not interested in like offloading all the work and decisions to CB; instead, interested in learning and collaborating and finding the right fit for me.
  • Use Cases: With this build, I am looking for something that is a bit of an all-arounder. I plan to use it for a mix of things:
    • Bopping around the city / commuting / grocery-getter, so definitely want it to be comfortable and not too slow on the road. ==> but I have the fixed gear for this too, so not highest priority.
    • But also I’d like to be able to take it on some longer road and/or gravel rides. So should be comfortable on gravel but doesn’t need to be super off-roady.
    • I’d like it to be able to potentially do some light touring / bike packing. But I’m okay if it’s not “perfect” for this; but want it to be an option.
    • TLDR: probably something in the ballpark of an “all arounder” road / light touring setup? With thicker tires.
  • Ride feel: While some of these uses stray towards something more stable/planted feeling, I would ideally want something that feels a bit more zippy and responsive and fun to ride. Don’t want something that is like ultra stable. ==> maybe a little more towards like road geometry vs. like a rando / touring setup? Don’t want something that rides like a touring bike.
  • Aesthetics: I do want something that feels a bit unique, personal, reflecting my personal style etc. Not something totally off-the-shelf.
    • Generally like simplicity, elegance; some modern updates cool though.
    • Something with a tasteful bit of color.
  • Budget: I don’t have a super hard number here. It depends on tradeoff with what I get for it. But generally it’s worth it for me to get exactly what I want – I want to really love it.
  • Things I think I have narrowed down so far:
    • Definitely steel frame – aesthetics / tradition; durability. Just my vibe. All the bikes I feel most connected to have been steel.
    • Probably tube set that’s a bit on lighter side?
    • Disc brakes. Probably mechanical? (not hydraulic).
    • Some sort of 1x drivetrain setup. Simplicity.
    • Clearance for some fatter gravel tires.
    • Care a little about weight -> carrying down steps. Pref not ultra heavy, but yeah steel so.
    • I do want to have option to mount racks - front / rear etc.
  • Things I am not sure on:
    • Wheel & tire details.
      • 650b vs. 700c?
    • Groupset stuff.
      • Drivetrain setup details.
    • How do I feel about carbon fork?
      • Qs: safety, aesthetics, weight, ride feel / “snappiness”
  • Frames that I have considered so far (& quick thoughts):
    • Surly:
      • Midnight Special: I’m not bigtime on Surly aesthetics generally, but from reviews, this seems like a pretty good match for me. Road geo / zippy, but can fit fatter tires; works for gravel, light-touring. I like the one paint color.
      • Straggler: Also in the ballpark. Thought I wanted this, but now lean more MS over this for my needs.
    • Crust Bombora: Frame I’ve been interested in for a while. I like the look and feel of it. Generally, have seen really good reviews, and I think things match what I am looking for. Main reservation is the price. But maybe I should just go for it?
      • Feels “zippy”. Semi-tucked rear
      • 858 tubing; on thinner side. Springy, fun.
      • Doesn’t ride like a full-on touring bike; can use as a road bike, gravel-grinder bike.
      • Compare to midnight special – more relaxed front end, jumpier rear?
      • Currently out of stock everywhere…
    • All City: in general, appreciate All City vibes / aesthetics, but not sure there’s a frame that is quite right for me. A bit heavy? Frames I have considered:
      • Space Horse:
        • “Neutral” front end.
        • Rear “on the long side” – chainstay 430 440ish; more stable, less reactive handling
        • Relaxed/chill ride quality.
        • Would be a maybe, but feel like I want something a little more lively?
      • Gorilla Monsoon:
        • Also generally worry this is a little bit on the stable side.
      • Cosmic Stallion:
        • I haven’t looked at this a ton, but it could make sense. Would be open to learning more.
        • Not super into carbon fork vibe, but maybe? Curious for thougths
        • Expensive – frameset 1700$ msrp?
        • People say nicer ride quality than SH?
    • Others:
      • Bassi Hogs Back?
      • Rune Rufus Stone?

Introduction

I’ve been thinking about getting another bike someday, and have started to brainstorm some options. In short, I think I would like to get some sort of “all-arounder” type frame, that could work on the road or on gravel, and could also do some touring if I wanted. I’ve been interested in trying some bike touring for a long while, and would like to open that possibility in the future. I’ve also been inspired recently by Probably Riding on YouTube who makes nice videos, and seems to enjoy these kinds of rides. I don’t think I need anything that is ultra tour-oriented, but I’d like to be able to do a bit of this.

There are a lot of options in this kind of bike category, so I will use this post to start keeping track of some options. The set of manufacturers on my list right now are: Rivendell, Velo Orange, Crust, and Surly. Each of these have a whole bunch of different options. I want to learn more about these and try to get a better sense of what might be best for me.

I am also going to use this space to reflect a bit on different types of riding options in this category that could be of interest to me.

What sort of riding?

I’m interested in some short-range touring & gravel riding as well as road riding.

I also want something that I can ride in the city when I need to carry some things around (e.g. getting groceries).

Where?

  • Middlesex Fells

Resources

Some bike options

Rivendell

Rivendell has a lot of different options that are fairly flexible in my understanding. A general appeal of these bikes is that they have really nice construction and are all steel frames (mostly lugged) in nice colors. They are based in Walnut Creek, so I would love to visit them next time I am in SF.

Here’s how they break it down:

Roadish:

Comboish:

  • A Homer Hilsen: “between a too-skinny/ techy modern road bike and a gonzo-bozo techy mountain bike. But if you ride on roads exclusively, it’s a pure road bike, with no compromises. Its ability to fit tires to 43mm with fenders and a rack or two doesn’t detract from its roadiness AT ALL. It is the most versatile, useful road bike we make or can even imagine.”
    • “BUILT FOR: Any road, paved or gravel, and moderate fire trails. Light touring, with loads to 30lbs (or so). It’s the most versatile road bike we make, and has been since we introduced it in 2006.”
    • Recommended brake setup is “Long-reach sidepulls, or centerpulls”
    • Minimum tires are 38mm they suggest.
    • Blue color is nice.
  • Sam Hillborne

Trailish:

  • Atlantis: “This has been our flagship frame since we introduced it in 1999. It’s an all-‘rounder, originally designed for almost anything you’ll need or want to do on a bicycle: loaded touring, trails, commutes, and day rides. The current Atlantis defines our approach to bikes and our ride and fit and aesthetics as well as any bike can.”
  • Joe Appaloosa – essentially the Atlantis but “made in Taiwan” version.

Honestly, it seems like people build these frames in all sorts of ways, so many of these options could work for many puposes. For my purposes, probably the A Homer Hilsen could work; I also find the Atlantis appealing though it’s probably a bit more tour-oriented than I really need.

Velo Orange

  • Polyvalent: “The Polyvalent is Velo Orange’s “do-it-all” frameset. It is the ideal platform to build a sturdy tourer, practical commuter, comfortable all-day randonneur, or a rugged gravel bike.” Steel frame, welded, clears 650B x 48mm. Rack and fender mounts. IS mount disc brakes recommended.
    • Low trail geometry but rides fairly stable according to PLP.
    • Stable back end.
    • Threaded headset. More compliant?

Surly

  • Straggler: this seems like a good option for me in the Surly world. Steel, clears 700x41mm tires, drops; billed by Surly as good for road, gravel, and short-range touring. Disc brakes.
    • I tried one of these from FB market and it felt pretty “boaty” to me. Makes me feel like I maybe want something slightly more on the agile side.
    • I tried another of these on FB and it felt better, and also tried one at Wheelworks. The 54 was a bit big, so I think a 52 would be the right fit for me. That’s a good reference point.
  • Midnight special
    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He_WNPWZUqQ - old review
    • Shorter chainstay
    • Mix of responsiveness of road bike with suppleness of bigger tire touring bike.
    • Build up with a discussion comparing to Straggler. He says Straggler:
      • Has more relaxed geo
      • Uses post mount disc brakes instead of flat mount
      • Uses quick release drop outs instead of thru axle
      • Different size head tube - implications for fork.
      • Straggler more traditional.
    • Mullet drivetrain on an MS
    • Comes with SRAM Rival 1 groupset if buy complete. 1x 11 speed drivetrain.
    • An older review:
      • The best way I could describe it was like a fast, light mountain bike that could be positioned to ride paved roads. Even that isn’t an accurate description of this bike though - it’s definitely a road bike, but it has an incredible combination of comfort and speed, unlike any road bike I’ve ridden to date.
      • What I have discovered over the miles of riding the MS is that it seems to be that bike I have searched for years to find. It has the right combination of speed and weight to make it viable as a road bike that can handle a bit of those off-paved-surfaces too. I am most certainly quicker on my dedicated, thinner-tired road bike (which is also lighter), but the difference in speed is not nearly as great as one might expect; and frankly, I’m willing to give up a bit of speed for the cushion I have riding this bike.
  • Crosscheck - basically antecedent to Straggler?

Crust

I know they make some good options in this category, but I need to learn more.

  • Bombora
  • Evasion

I have been looking at a lot of reviews of the Bombora, and it seems like a really good fit for me potentially. It’s definitely not cheap, but could be a “dream” frame.

Some Bombora reviews w/notes:

  • Queer Cyclist
    • Mullet drivetrain does seem chill.
  • Path Less Pedaled
    • Has “semi-tucked” rear end. Rear chainstay length: 425 (slightly shorter than typical all-arounder 430, but not as short as road). Feels “zippy”. I think “tucked” refers to how much rear wheel is tucked under the seat.
    • 858 tubing; on thinner side. Springy, fun.
    • Doesn’t ride like a full-on touring bike; can use as a road bike, gravel-grinder bike.
    • Compare to midnight special – more relaxed front end, jumpier rear?
    • Cross check – Bombora more chill front.
    • “Mullet bike” - chill in front, spicy rear?
    • Good set of rack mounts.
  • Hailey’s Crust Bombora: A Work in Progress

Some important notes:

  • Designed around 650b, but can run 700c with some limitations.
  • “Takes a ROAD crank. Ideally 1x with a maximum 44 tooth chainring. You can set it up 2x, but it’s on you to figure that out.”

All City

Space Horse

  • 612 select tubing https://allcitycycles.com/design/tubing
  • “All arounder” light touring road bike.
  • Clearance for 650b x 47mm on all sizes, and the 49-61cm frame sizes also fit 700c x 45mm
  • Fenders, rack mounts
  • Nice lugged fork
  • PathLessPedaled review
    • “Neutral” front end.
    • Rear “on the long side” – chainstay 430 440ish; more stable, less reactive handling
    • Nice aesthetics
    • A bit heavy
    • Good for a nice commuter. Lightly loaded road + gravel tours.
    • Relaxed/chill ride quality.
    • Similar to Sam Hillborn

Nature Boy

  • 650B

Gorilla Monsoon

  • Built around a 27.5 x 2.4” platform, the Gorilla Monsoon offers clearance for 700c x 42mm
  • One review
  • Path Less Pedaled oldish review.
    • Beefed up all arounder
    • Semi tucked rear? Some quickness, but not super fast. Not as snappy as the Midnight special.
    • Not super light
    • How does it ride? Front end handling felt stable; good for gravel and offroad.
    • Livelier on smaller tires.
  • I like the aesthetic options of the All-City frames a lot.

Cosmic Stallion

  • All-Road Endurance Thoroughbred
  • Carbon fork
  • PLP review

A lot of people seem to recommend the Gorilla Monsoon as an alternative to the Bombora. Claims: cheapers, similar geo, heavier?

Salsa

  • Warbird
  • Vaya

Bassi

Rune?

https://www.runebicycles.com/

Components

General

Note: groupset refers to drivetrain, shifting, braking & cables etc.

Common groupset manufacturers:

  • Shimano: Offers groupsets for road, gravel, and mountain bikes at various price points (e.g., Claris, 105, Ultegra, Dura-Ace).
  • SRAM: Known for 1x drivetrains and wireless shifting (e.g., Apex, Rival, Force, Red).
  • Campagnolo: A premium option for road bikes, offering lightweight and performance-oriented components.

Drivetrain

Choices: crankset, bottom bracket, cassette, chain, derailleurs.

Probably 1x?

Why is 1x so common for gravel? Some discussion here

Simpler, less overlap/redundancy. Slightly lighter. Looks cleaner, no front derraileur. More viable now with wide-ranges casettes and improvements in derailleurs? Better chain retention on rough terrain. More broadly, supporting only 1x means more flexibility on frame design. Cheaper.

Downside is less gear range, but maybe not much? Larger jumps between gears. Chain angle and efficiecy concerns? Chain runs at more extreme angles on 1x setup. Depends on how relevant to riding you’re doing. People seem to like 2x more when doing more road riding; 1x more dirt/gravel/rougher.

Some of my options on drivetrain will interact with frame? E.g. contstraints around the type of bottom bracket?

  • E.g. Midnight special takes 68mm threaded (1.37” x 24TPI) BB which is a road bike standard I think?

What’s deal with mullet drivetrain?

  • Road shifter to control a mountain bike derailleur/cassette
  • Why? basically people want wide-range 1x drivetrains, that in particular have rly low granny gear for climbing / touring etc. Existing road 1x systems don’t go wide enough?
  • I’m not sure if I care enough about having a really low gear to worry about the complexity here.

Notes/links

Shifting System

TBD

Brakes / Brake levers

Disc brakes. What kind? Hydraulic/cable?

Post mount vs. flat mount disc brakes summary from ChatGPT:

Post Mount

  • Design: Uses two vertical bolts directly threaded into the fork or frame.
  • Adjustment: Allows for some lateral adjustment of the caliper, making it easier to align the brake pads with the rotor.
  • Compatibility: Commonly found on mountain bikes and some hybrid bikes, as it was one of the earlier disc brake mounting standards.
  • Rotor Size: Compatible with larger rotors, which is beneficial for handling the more intense braking needs of mountain biking.
  • Adapter: Often requires an adapter to fit different rotor sizes.

Flat Mount

  • Design: Uses a more compact design, with bolts that attach from the side, directly into the frame or fork, creating a sleeker look.
  • Adjustment: Offers minimal lateral adjustment, so alignment with the rotor may require shimming or careful setup.
  • Compatibility: Mostly found on road bikes, gravel bikes, and some modern urban bikes, where weight and aerodynamics are prioritized.
  • Rotor Size: Typically supports smaller rotor sizes (140mm or 160mm), which are usually sufficient for road riding.

Summary

  • Post Mount: Better for bikes needing more stopping power, like mountain bikes.
  • Flat Mount: Lighter, sleeker, often preferred for road bikes.

Hydraulic vs. mechanical brakes? Supposed advantages of hydraulic:

  • Enhanced Stopping Power: Hydraulic systems provide stronger and more consistent braking force, which is particularly beneficial in demanding conditions such as steep descents or wet weather.

  • Improved Modulation: They offer finer control over braking force, allowing for smoother and more precise stops.

  • Self-Adjusting Mechanism: As brake pads wear down, hydraulic systems automatically adjust to maintain consistent pad-to-rotor clearance, reducing the need for frequent manual adjustments.

Advantages of mechanical:

  • Simpler, cost-effective, field- servicable.

Hydraulic systems require more and more-complicated maintenance. Probably not worth it for me.

Wheelset

650b or 700c? One link

I guess it would be nice to have a frame that could accomodate either.

Handlebars

Probably some wider drops?

Nitto x Crust drop?

Notes on Buying a Used Bike

Some advice and notes from ChatGPT and elsewhere:

Basics

  • Maintenance History: Inquire about how the bike has been maintained. Regular maintenance records indicate a well-cared-for bike.
  • Usage: Ask how often and for what purposes the bike was used. Frequent off-road or harsh weather use can cause more wear and tear.
  • Reason for Selling: Understanding why the seller is parting with the bike can provide insight into its condition.

Check for wear and damage:

  • Frame and Fork: Look for cracks, dents, or signs of damage. Check welds and paint for any abnormalities.
  • Drivetrain: Examine the chain, cassette, and chainrings for wear. A worn drivetrain can be expensive to replace.
  • Brakes and Tires: Check the brake pads, rotors (if disc brakes), and tire tread. Worn-out components here can indicate heavy use.
  • Bearings: Ask if the headset, bottom bracket, and wheel bearings are in good condition. Listen for any unusual noises during a test ride (if possible).

How do I do this?

Chain:

  • Visual Inspection: Look for rust, corrosion, or stiff links. A chain that looks rusty or has stiff links might need replacing.
  • Chain Wear Indicator: Use a chain wear indicator tool if you have one. Insert the tool into the chain; if it fits fully, the chain is worn out and needs replacement.

Cassette:

  • Teeth Condition: Inspect the teeth on the cassette cogs. They should be symmetrical and not look like shark fins. Worn teeth can cause poor shifting and chain slippage.
  • Side-to-Side Movement: Check for excessive play or wobbling in the cassette when you spin the wheel. This could indicate worn bearings or a loose cassette.

Chainrings:

  • Teeth Condition: Like the cassette, the teeth on the chainrings should not be excessively worn or look like shark fins.
  • Bolts: Ensure the chainring bolts are tight and secure.

Derailleurs:

  • Alignment: Check that both the front and rear derailleurs are properly aligned and not bent. A bent derailleur can cause poor shifting.
  • Movement: Shift through all the gears to see if the derailleurs move smoothly and precisely. Any hesitation or difficulty in shifting might indicate issues.

Tread Wear:

  • Inspection: Examine the tire tread for wear. Tires with shallow or uneven tread may need replacing.
  • Cracks and Cuts: Look for any cracks, cuts, or bulges in the tire sidewalls or tread. These are signs that the tires are aging or have been damaged.

Tire Pressure:

  • Inflation: Check if the tires hold air properly. Inflate them to the recommended pressure (indicated on the sidewall) and see if they stay inflated over time.
  • Valve Condition: Inspect the valve stems for any damage or leaks.

Wheel Condition:

  • Spokes: Check for any loose or broken spokes. Spin the wheels to ensure they run true (no wobbling side to side).
  • Rim Damage: Look for dents, cracks, or flat spots on the rims.